Silouette or True Blue in 45 Acp Loads

03-26-2013,08:33 PM

I was reading on the "go to" powder thread and read on the ".45 +P" thread and I kinda remembered something.
I looked at Ramshot's .45 ACP data and they list 8.4grn with a 200grn cast SWC and 7.8grn with a 230grn cast SWC. Repective velocities are 1071fps and 980fps. Respective pressures are at 20,349psi and 20,230psi.
Has anybody played with this powder? Does it deliver what it promises? Accuracy?
The listed data didn't specify brass. It did specify a 5" barrel and Fed 150 primers (I've never used Federal Pistol Primers, so I don't even know if that's a Std. or Mag Primer).
I know a .45 ACP doesn't really "need" an extra 100+ fps. But like most things, I'll take it if it's free!!

03-26-2013,09:49 PM

Question is......which "cast SWC", exactly? Seating depth matters.

This also is known as Winchester Action Pistol, (WAP) rebranded and sold unchanged by Ramshot.

Their data for Enforcer for 45 ACP (yes, it existed) was pretty impressive too.

Extra fast loads decrease reliability in autoloaders, and that a 230 at 980 is in excess of +P loads in terms of velocity, no matter what the pressure is. The slide is driven by the bullet's mass times velocity. Momentum rearward matches momentum forward, and this is a bunch.

I've used WAP (Silhouette), but given that I'm not sure what Ramshot means by "230 LC cast SWC" I cannot comment specifically on that. I know of no 230 grain SWC's that load to a 1.267" overall length and still allow chambering in an autoloader, as that is ball overall length. Any appreciable amount of full bearing surface (front band) outside the case mouth will prohibit chambering in an autoloader, so that data provided does not match any bullet I can come up with, including the most likely candidates like the 240 Keith made for the Auto Rim.

There is little it can do that other powders cannot. An analogue would be Power Pistol, but it does not have Power Pistol's annoying blast. It's not particularly "magical" IME. Better figure out what they mean as to which bullet, exactly, and have them explain the weird overall lengths. Most HG 68 type 200 SWC's load to around 1.250" or so, and 1.267" is decidedly longish. It's way to long for any other kind of 200 SWC with a shorter nose.

So "200 SWC" is very vague also, and 1.267" is as well for that bullet type.

03-26-2013,09:52 PM

Yesterday In shot my first batch of 45 Autos loaded with Silhouette. They were 230 grain cast bullets (Lee mold, straight wheelweights, stick Alox lube, .451") over the book max charge laid up in Speer brass, taper crimped with a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, and lit with CCI small pistol standard primers. I was impressed with the lack of muzzle flash and the clean-burning properties of this powder. It was hard to tell if the load shot tight enough to use in a match- what with the 45 mph wind and sub-zero windchill

- but practical accuracy was just fine. A full mag from my Springfield Champion fired as quickly as I could acquire a sight picture (so eight rounds in less than four seconds) put 'em into a palm-sized group at seven yards. Brass was ejected vigorously and landed extremely close together, indicating the load likely has minimal extreme spread.

I was function testing this trip, but when I can set up my chrono without it blowing down to Colorado or me losing feeling in my extremities, I'll get some numbers. Everything I've read, though, says Silhouette does pretty much what it claims. I'll also set up my Hammr rest and get some idea of the inherent accuracy, but to be honest this load is just to duplicate my carry load so I can practice inexpensively. If it will stay under three inches at 25 yards, shoot to POA, and function 100%, I'll be happy.

03-27-2013,11:52 AM

I've used it, but it only burns well with full power loads. With less than full power loads, I get a lot of unburned powder in the action and inconsistent velocities. The bullet I was loading was the Berry's 185 gr. HBRN bullet, which has proven to be an excellent bullet, but not with Silhouette powder at less than maximum loadings.

I went back to my standard powders for the .45 acp, Winchester 231, Bullseye and Ramshot True Blue, though the True Blue also requires maximum loads for good ignition.

Hope this helps.

Fred

03-28-2013,09:40 AM

I kinda figured that if one ran this powder at the upper end it might not be a bad idea to switch to a little heavier spring (I've no clue what lb spring is in my Kimber, other than it functions fine, I need to read up on springs, bushings, etc).
I don't ever run my Kimber with "target" loads or anything under 200 grains @ 900fps. period so I'd not worry too much about "overspringing". No doubt slide velocity would increase, even with a heavier spring, but I did a little quick math and couldn't see where the momentum was appreciably greater than with a 10mm.
Further, a little load work up (with a chrony!!) would be prudent, as a deeper seated bullet should hit the aforementioned speeds before the max charge weight. I thought I'd caliper my loads just to see where they are, buy my calipers are roaming out in my shop somewhere AWOL.
I have fooled with a .45 ACP just long enought to figure out, BULLET MATTERS! It ain't like a .45 Colt in a Blackhawk frame where any sane bullet WEIGHT with any sane charge with any sane powder is ok.
You can run outta room real quick in these stubby cases made for self-shuckers. I figured that out when my 230 Lee TC's came out a little +P'ish with a book charge of H-Universal.
Noah, keep me posted on your findings as weather improves in your part of the country.
As always, thanks to everyone for your input!!!

03-28-2013,10:57 PM

Skip the heavier spring as a generally oversold and bad idea. Look into a small radius firing pin stop instead. Equal to greater slide speed attenuation without throwing the slide forward any harder than a standard spring. Forward fast is as bad or worse than backward fast.

Heavier springs may compromise reliability; a small radius stop enhances it. Stick with stock springs and go the better way instead.

03-29-2013,12:53 AM

Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post

This also is known as Winchester Action Pistol, (WAP) rebranded and sold unchanged by Ramshot.

It's my understanding that "Silhouette" has an additional coating so it burns cleaner??
Having said that I've never burnt any in the 45 ACP but I've burnt it in the 40 S&W, the only powder I've burnt that is smokier is Swiss FFF!, they were light "plinking" loads?, since then I've observed that ball powders seem to run best at their top ends, I should load some at the top end and see how they burn?

04-02-2013,10:51 AM

Quote Originally Posted by Potsy View Post

I was reading on the "go to" powder thread and read on the ".45 +P" thread and I kinda remembered something.
I looked at Ramshot's .45 ACP data and they list 8.4grn with a 200grn cast SWC and 7.8grn with a 230grn cast SWC. Repective velocities are 1071fps and 980fps. Respective pressures are at 20,349psi and 20,230psi.
Has anybody played with this powder? Does it deliver what it promises? Accuracy?
The listed data didn't specify brass. It did specify a 5" barrel and Fed 150 primers (I've never used Federal Pistol Primers, so I don't even know if that's a Std. or Mag Primer).
I know a .45 ACP doesn't really "need" an extra 100+ fps. But like most things, I'll take it if it's free!!

I started using Silhouette during the first ObamaScare when I couldn't get AA#5. Now I'm glad I tried it. Good stuff in 45acp for max loads. Not the right powder for light loads as you will get zombies. If you want to go fast, Silhouette is a good powder IMO.

04-02-2013,11:08 AM

Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post

but given that I'm not sure what Ramshot means by "230 LC cast SWC" I cannot comment specifically on that.

LC is Laser Cast, ie Oregon Trail brand bullets.

04-03-2013,11:46 AM

Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post

Skip the heavier spring as a generally oversold and bad idea. Look into a small radius firing pin stop instead. Equal to greater slide speed attenuation without throwing the slide forward any harder than a standard spring. Forward fast is as bad or worse than backward fast.

Heavier springs may compromise reliability; a small radius stop enhances it. Stick with stock springs and go the better way instead.

35 Rem, where does one get a small radius firing pin stop? Also, is the reason for it to interface with the hammer closer to the hammer pin? I pretty much stay with standard velocity with the 1911, and go to 45 Colt in wheelguns if I want faster and heavier, but you've piqued my curiosity.

04-03-2013,12:21 PM

EGW (Evolution Gunworks) has an overside flat bottomed FP stop that you can install and put your own radius on.

04-03-2013,01:03 PM

The small radius stop makes the stop push on the hammer closer to the pivot pin, reducing the slide's leverage on the hammer, and making it harder for the slide to cock the gun. This reduces the slide's velocity without the downside of using a heavier spring. Win win. Heavier recoil springs are a poor substitute compared to this.

Some tapering of the stop may need to be done to ensure the contact is low and the hammerface does not rest near the firing pin hole. Go with a very small radius to start, just enough to barely round the corner.

John Browning originally designed the gun with the small radius stop and it should have it as SOP. The army changed to a larger radius in the 20's to allow wimpy grasping soldiers the ability to cock the gun easier. The SRS is a reliability aid, as it reduces the jarring of the slide striking the VIS and helps keep the rounds in place in the magazine under slide/frame impact.

The properly set up 1911 should be and will be most reliable if you use the mantra "back to Browning", that is, as he designed it. That would include the magazine design he designed it to function with and the small radius stop he designed it to have.

Most 1911 users have neither.

04-04-2013,07:12 AM

http://www.wedealinlead.net/forum/vi...php?t=79&p=163

Here is a bit of info on my experiments with heavies in the 1911. My main "insurance" against battering is the flat bottom firing pin stop.

Silouette or True Blue in 45 Acp Loads

Ramshot Silhouette in .45 ACP?

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